More of Shakespeare I 'Macbeth'

[Big brotheR]

ASKED why he killed the two guards of the king, MACBETH said



Who can be wise, amazed, temperate and furious,
Loyal and neutral, in a moment? No man.
Th' expedition of my violent love
Outrun the pauser, reason. Here lay Duncan,
His silver skin laced with his golden blood;

[Big brotheR]

i mean what do you think of the reaction, of the wrods, of everything you notice

[Waleed Sultan]

The saying of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) that says no one can have two different thinking at the same time.

"ما جعل الله فى قلب رجل من جوفين"

[Big brotheR]

win a 100+ posts if you get close to what i have in mind!

[Sameeha]

Sometimes we go for extremes

[Big brotheR]

we do...

[cute angel]

will be back insha'allah

[cute angel]

Hello,

Concerning the words we see that he has used many opposites wise, amazed, temperate and furious,
Loyal and neutral, it's a paradox isn't it

I think Macbeth wanted us to feel his sufferance coz from those words he is trying to give excuses for himself and he is also trying to tell us that he was a state of unconcious mind when he killed the guards nd duncan.

For the last part

Here lay Duncan,
His silver skin laced with his golden blood;
__________________

He is prasing Duncan coz we know that these two mitals are precious and Macbeth descrideb duncan we both silver and gold.He didn't want to kill but he was forced to do that by those supernatural powers and that leads us to say that may be Macbeth thought that a spell was cast by the witches on him.

[Big brotheR]

do you take that as a confession?

[Big brotheR]

??

[Sameeha]

two guards of the king

Macbeth didn't kill the gaurds

how come????????

[Sameeha]

They were left drunk, he only killed the king

[Big brotheR]

well he did

he accused them of killing the king

[Big brotheR]

that was part of the plot. we get them drunk, kill the king, then kill them... lady macbeth

[alla*]

but he didn't follow the plan they agreed upon?

[Sameeha]

Who can be wise, amazed, temperate and furious,
Loyal and neutral, in a moment? No man

No man

but women Can :D:D

[alla*]

No man

but women Can

i agree :D

[Big brotheR]

No man

but women Can :D:D

you have come this close to one of my greatest discoveries of Shakespeare.

tell me more(34:)

[Sameeha]

I'm amazed I got that far :D

be more specific :)

[Big brotheR]

lagnuage
situation
speaker
imagery

relations between them

[Sameeha]

do you take that as a confession?


It is more of an accusation to his wife , a declaration of a state of powerlessness, a revelation to the real murderer who is his wife, as he thinks her to blame.
It's by his Violent love that he lost control over his reason.
And when there's no reason, women are involved.
This is why his plea wasn't at all convincing for his addressees

[Big brotheR]

he was as i recall answering Malcolm's question.



you added a good point there

[alla*]

(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:) (19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)(19:)

[Big brotheR]

???

[Sameeha]

I'm getting so curious:(:(

[ELHAM]

Who can be wise, amazed, temperate and furious,
Loyal and neutral, in a moment? No man.

Hamlet can ...

[ELHAM]

من ذا الذي يمكنه أن يكون حكيما ساعة اضطرابه , معتدلا لحظة غضبه ,
وفيا ومحايدا في نفس الوقت ؟ لا أحد
قد سبق حبي الشديد له عقلي المتروي . . فهنا كان يرقد دنكان , وعلى أديم جسمه الفضي خطوط متشابكة من دمه الذهبي

am i allowed to think in arabic? :D

[ELHAM]

does this need a freudian psychoanalytic approach or wt? :(

[ROOON]

I cant remember the play but was he killed by a silver knife or poisoned ?

[ROOON]

sorry it must be a knife

[Sameeha]

His silver skin laced with his golden blood

silver, and golden blood. violent image with feminine aspect.

[Big brotheR]

i am stunned!

warm

[Sameeha]

I can't seem to stop thinking about this

You know what came to my mind sir. The idea you've once mentioned about Shakespeare being a woman.

Is that related? or at least, it would indicate a diction dictated by a woman, a political hint as well putting in mind Queen Elizabeth.

I don't know I feel I got soo far. :(:(

[Big brotheR]

ه شة سفعىىثي غثف شلشهى!

[Sameeha]

ه شة سفعىىثي غثف شلشهى!
aha, got you

بديت اخبص :D:D

[Sameeha]

but what about the pattern,

I mean a discovery of Shakespeare requires a trace of a pattern, this quote wouldn't be an evidence enough.

So, you might provide us with another qoute, maybe we can get what you're looking for '

[Big brotheR]

sameeha, got a very important point 'the feminine' discourse, but she went to far relating it to the author himself. That's why she asked for a pattern. Let's keep in the text even in the act itself.


i mean read the lines carefully and see how much they do or do not fit where/when/how/why they were said

[Mo7amed]

I think I don't have enough background on Shakespeare and this play to answer this, but since I was invited, I will write what came to my mind.

how can one be so poetic in defending himself; i mean it's not reasonable that one who is refuting himself killing two persons that way in the scene of crime: to use this sofisticated sublime language, all these imageries, and to be that accurate in descriping and expounding human nature.

so, with the help of some answers,

to say: No man! he is so specific as just he is a teacher or speaker expressing his beliefs freely to the students or the audience.

to use all these binaries: gold and silver, violent and temperate, wise and furious, nuetral and loyal.

and what BB wrote as if he was assuming that he should not have spoken in that kind of language. to statter and be incollected and nervous.

[Sameeha]

and what BB wrote as if he was assuming that he should not have spoken in that kind of language. to statter and be incollected and nervous.

an eloquent previously set answer.

[Mo7amed]

sorry, didn't get you.

[Sameeha]

I mean Macbeth's answer was eloqent which doesn't fit the chaotic context in which it was said, this is why i believe It was previously set. But by whom? Is it lady Macbeth's?

[Mo7amed]

and why set it? is to be caught was part of the plan? or u mean in case he was caught(sorry, I am not acquainted with the play)

[Sameeha]

They weren't caught, but he was asked why he killed the two guards who were accused of murder by Macduff, and he answered this way

[Mo7amed]

he was asked

who asked him?

[Sameeha]

and guess what, his answer was not at all convincing. the qoute was followed by a fake fainting by Lady Macbeth who were acting shocked, as if :D:D

anyways, this is what both Malcom and Macduff thought after hearing Macbeth's answer

Malcolm [Aside to DONALBAIN] Why do we hold
our tongues, 120
That most may claim this argument for ours?
Donalbain [Aside to MALCOLM] What should be spoken
Here where our fate, hid in an auger-hole,
May rush and seize us? Let’s away: our tears
Are not yet brew’d.

[Sameeha]

by Macduff

[Mo7amed]

ok got it

this changes alot.

[Sameeha]

this changes alot.

how?

[Mo7amed]

the answer no longer fits into the context, I suppose. I thought that he was caught and that speech was in the scene of crime. I thought him defending himself.

[Sameeha]

I thought him defending himself.

The thing is that you're right. The speech give you the impression that yes, they are presenting a plea in which they are defending themselves.


but what this has to do with the feminine discourse, I mean let's put in consideration the fact that Lady macbeth is the once who planned the whole murder and she was the one directing behind the curtains, so could that plea been dictated by lady macbeth herself?

[Sameeha]

Well, let me put it this way

I guess the whole murder was a scene which was directed and written by lady macbeth, and in which Macbeth has the major role, and she was to stay behind the curtains giving the instructions and writing Macbeth's role.

The fact that the simple question asked by Macduff required him only to say " I killed them for they killed the king" was answered with a rhetoric question about the nature of human beings, the fiminine imagery presented in the lines and finally the amount of emotional involvement in the text " violent love" may be some clear evidence that this answer was not only prepared previously but also was written by a woman.

That's all I can say about this

[Sameeha]

Let's not forget that the response to that scene was being not convinced with the answer which seems to lack REASON

[Mo7amed]

do you think a woman, who could set such a perfectly-knitted answer, would hint to herself being the actual murderer?

[Sameeha]

do you think a woman, who could set such a perfectly-knitted answer, would hint to herself being the actual murderer?

Do you think Macbeth hated his wife much enough to make him allude to her being the murderer

[Mo7amed]

don't you think you're creating a new play within the play! so, first, supposing that Lady Macbeth is that who sets the answer for Macbeth. Then, Macbeth alters the answer to hint that he is not the murderer. what next? :-D

[Mo7amed]

I am not saying what you said is not possible, though.

[Sameeha]

a new play within the play

IT's not me, the other play is there. you can't deny it, we have the characters, the plot, the audience, what else? but the writer is missing ? who wrote that play? That's the question ?

[Big brotheR]

how can one be so poetic in defending himself;

and ppl keep asking me why i favour Mohammed

[Big brotheR]

well, let me put it this way

i guess the whole murder was a scene which was directed and written by lady macbeth, and in which macbeth has the major role, and she was to stay behind the curtains giving the instructions and writing macbeth's role.

The fact that the simple question asked by macduff required him only to say " i killed them for they killed the king" was answered with a rhetoric question about the nature of human beings, the fiminine imagery presented in the lines and finally the amount of emotional involvement in the text " violent love" may be some clear evidence that this answer was not only prepared previously but also was written by a woman.

That's all i can say about this

(4:)

[Mo7amed]

(38:)

and ppl keep asking me why i favour mohammed

(40:)

[Big brotheR]

do you think a woman, who could set such a perfectly-knitted answer, would hint to herself being the actual murderer?

that's the working of the un/subconscious stuff! They dominate not only our thinking, but also our discourse, unknowingly most of the time.

You can't help it, bro! Language controls us not the other way round!

[Sameeha]

that's the working of the un/subconscious stuff!

I was going to say the same :)

[Sameeha]

and ppl keep asking me why i favour mohammed

(36:)(36:)(36:)

[Big brotheR]

IT's not me, the other play is there. you can't deny it, we have the characters, the plot, the audience, what else? but the writer is missing ? who wrote that play? That's the question ?

well, the answer is available. Lady Macbeth was dominating the scene and directing the plot and her man the moment she read his letter of the three prophecies till the moment she faints when Macbeth started ignoring her presence.

[Mo7amed]

I was going to say the same

changes her mind as usual :-D (kidding)

[Sameeha]

So, did I get it right? :D:D:D

[Mo7amed]

if you could except the part that Macbeth himself alters the answer to hint that his lady is the actual murderer ...

[Big brotheR]

if you could except the part that Macbeth himself alters the answer to hint that his lady is the actual murderer ...

yea. i agree!

It is not a matter of right or wrong. You two rock. You put it more eloquent than i had in mind. I will try to pour my ideas here tonight.

[Sameeha]

changes her mind as usual :-D (kidding)

Do I ?:p

[Mo7amed]

oh Cool

but I have a question














what this Macbeth is all about? :-D

[Sameeha]

if you could except the part that Macbeth himself alters the answer to hint that his lady is the actual murderer ...

I didn't say this, you're the one who suggested it

[Mo7amed]

what?? (:1)

[Sameeha]

what this Macbeth is all about? :-D



As I remember, it's about JEALOUSY, and AMBITION, plz don't remind me. I skipped half the classes. I don't even remember i took that part

[Mo7amed]

Me:

do you think a woman, who could set such a perfectly-knitted answer, would hint to herself being the actual murderer?

you:

do you think macbeth hated his wife much enough to make him allude to her being the murderer

[Sameeha]

Do I have to say kidding to make you get it was only a joke :p

do you think macbeth hated his wife much enough to make him allude to her being the murderer

I mean this would be totally NADALA

[Sameeha]

I will try to pour my ideas here tonight

So?

[Big brotheR]

two points.
The poeticality, regularity, richness of the lines in a context that does not accept such things. Mentioned by Mohammed
The femininity in the lines is too obvious to overlook. Referred to by Sameeha


Conclusion? These lines were composed by Lady Macbeth and dedicated to her Man the way she prepared the plan of the murder and imposed it on him.

[alla*]

wow
all this happened men waraya!!!



i really enjoyed every single word:)
a real crtical thinking
as if i know nth about macbeth :D

[Sameeha]

so, we should share the posts, fifty fifty.

unfair :mad:










kidding:D

I'm so happy i got that far

[alla*]

Conclusion? These lines were composed by Lady Macbeth and dedicated to her Man the way she prepared the plan of the murder and imposed it on him.




oh my God!!!!!!

[Big brotheR]

No man.

but for sure a woman can.

Imagine a book by R. A. named 'Lady Macbeth: Red-Handed'
(40:)
(36:)

[alla*]

:)

[Sameeha]

Imagine a book by R. A. named 'Lady Macbeth: Red-Handed'

Red handed, wow
impressive


a woman can
well you have to cite that then under E,s ( 2009, page 2) lollol

I haaaaate citation

[alla*]

i wanna cry coz of such conclusion



Lady Macbeth did such a hard job,and shak. didn't give her an identity
she is unnamed :(

[Fidaa]

:) ok
brb on sat.

[Sameeha]

Lady Macbeth did such a hard job,and shak. didn't give her an identity
she is unnamed

You know what kills you alla, it's the fact that though she proved to be a devilish mind, a cunning one. Shakespeare just shocks you when no one believes the story, and everyone suspects him. As if suggesting that a woman can never make a plot, a convincing plot


He's meaaaaaaaaaan

[cute angel]

Hellooooooooooooooooo

I missed a lot of fun in here sorry for being late guys

wow Lady Macbeth is such a strong woman whom I do really respect ,for her courage but of course not for her deeds,.

Every thing was done by the hands of such woman

whare was she years ago I mean her dark side where was it when Macbeth was a very good and brave man.

He got married to a woman that hepled him to go further in his good nature but it seems that he missed the point that women are not always having the same face they are like chameleon changing colours according to the situation.(Not ALL WOMEN ARE THE SAME)ok.

So here we come to the conclusion that Macbeth should not be blamed as much as his wife and we find that in the play coz the end of each one of them is up to his deeds

For lady Macbeth she got mad(suffered toooo much) and then may be poisoned herself or murdred I don't really know coz it's not that clear

and Macbeth lost his friends and later he was killed but at least as a man if I can say so because he was obliged to take that path

Just a point of view to conclude with

For the position of women in Shakespeare's plays I don't think that he is blaming women as some poets did he is in deed praising their intellegence like in the Merchant of Venice where women were the source of help and wisdom.Eventhough women sometimes act like devils and other times like angels but yet both are smarttttttttttttttt

[SnOw G!rL]

i am on my way to read this drama
will be bacj to comment after finshing :D not a promise :p

[Big brotheR]

we will be waiting for you, snow. I am sure you will enrich it.

[SnOw G!rL]

thanks mr BB , i hope that i won't be late to have a chance to disscus ,